Covert Narcissism
by Quinn
Note: Grace is a pseudonym
One of the big red flags that came up for me early at Friday Night was Dave’s overconfidence about his secondary theological opinions. When you go to seminary (at least the one I went to), you encounter a wide range of opinions, and you generally find out that there are pretty smart people and pretty good arguments on both sides of most issues. The natural result of this is that if you really listen to the other side, you end up holding your own views a bit loosely, knowing you could be wrong.
Dave has a confidence about his own views that I never encountered in the academic setting. To be fair, he does know quite a lot, and I firmly believe he could debate doctoral-level Bible scholars toe-to-toe on quite a few topics.
Nevertheless, noticing this was a huge turn-off for me in my early days at Friday Night. But I recognized Dave’s knowledge, and felt that I could learn from him. He did not strike me as a generally arrogant man. Outwardly, he appears humble and self-sacrificial in many ways. Unfortunately, because of the existence of covert narcissism, those outward traits cannot be used to rule out the possibility of intense pride lurking underneath the surface.
Special thanks to Jim for pointing me to this idea. Obviously, I’m not qualified to diagnose Dave, and this is not a diagnosis. At the same time, I do feel that understanding Dave through this lens makes a lot of things click into place.
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The following information is from ChatGPT, synthesized from various psychological and clinical sources, including:
Research and literature on Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) from the DSM-5.
Insights from well-regarded psychologists and clinicians who specialize in narcissism (e.g., Dr. Craig Malkin, Dr. Ramani Durvasula).
Common themes from books such as "The Narcissist You Know" by Dr. Joseph Burgo and "Rethinking Narcissism" by Dr. Craig Malkin.
Patterns widely discussed in trauma recovery and codependency communities, particularly in how covert narcissism impacts relationships.
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Covert narcissists, also known as vulnerable or introverted narcissists, are individuals with narcissistic traits or narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) who express these traits in less obvious, more subtle ways than the classic “grandiose” narcissist. While grandiose narcissists are overtly self-important, attention-seeking, and dominating, covert narcissists often appear shy, reserved, or even self-effacing—but beneath that exterior lies the same core of entitlement, lack of empathy, and deep need for validation.
Here’s a breakdown of traits and behaviors often associated with covert narcissists:
1. Victim Mentality
They may often see themselves as perpetual victims—wronged, misunderstood, or unappreciated—using this narrative to gain sympathy, manipulate others, or deflect responsibility.
2. Passive-Aggressiveness
Instead of openly expressing anger or frustration, they may use sarcasm, backhanded compliments, the silent treatment, or guilt-tripping to punish or control others.
3. Hypersensitivity to Criticism
Even mild or constructive criticism can trigger a strong emotional reaction, because it threatens their fragile self-image. They may brood over perceived slights or retaliate subtly.
4. Emotional Manipulation
They may play on others' emotions to get what they want—using guilt, shame, or exaggerated vulnerability to maintain control and evoke caretaking responses.
5. Quiet Grandiosity
Though they may appear modest or insecure, covert narcissists often harbor secret fantasies of greatness, superiority, or being unrecognized geniuses. They crave admiration but may act aloof to seem above it.
6. Lack of Empathy (but well-disguised)
They may seem caring or even empathetic at first, but their concern usually has strings attached. Over time, their lack of genuine empathy becomes clearer in how they respond to others’ needs.
7. Envy and Resentment
They often feel envious of others’ success, happiness, or attention and may harbor deep resentment. This can lead to sabotage, undermining, or toxic competitiveness.
8. Interpersonal Exploitation
They might use others to meet their emotional needs, often subtly, such as fishing for compliments, emotional caretaking, or relying on others to carry the emotional weight of relationships.
Why are covert narcissists hard to spot? Because they don’t fit the typical mold of a narcissist—they’re not flashy, loud, or obviously self-absorbed. They might come off as sensitive, introverted, or even kind at first. It’s only over time that the manipulation, emotional drain, and one-sidedness of the relationship become apparent.
If you're dealing with someone like this, especially in a close relationship, it can be incredibly confusing and damaging. You might feel like you're walking on eggshells or constantly trying to make them happy while losing your sense of self in the process.
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Dave’s Quiet Grandiosity
Looking back, there were a number of warning signs of Dave’s grandiosity.
The Big Dead Rock
Dave has referred to himself as a “big dead rock,” in reference to the moon. The idea he would share is that the moon produces no light of its own, but only reflects the light of the sun. When it’s daytime, no one really notices the moon – but when all around is dark, the moon lights up the sky because it’s reflecting the glory of the sun. The surface-level message is one of modesty: anything good you see in me is because of God, I’m just a big dead rock. The subtext is: I’m the big dead rock. I’m the one whose glory requires explanation.
Then Why Doesn’t Your Face Show It?
Dave tells a story about being in Eastern Europe teaching a classroom of people. I might get some of the details wrong here, bear with me. Anyway, supposedly the people he’s teaching have a kind of gloomy demeanor about them. And he asks them if they have the joy of the Lord, or something like that. They say yes, and he says, “then why doesn’t your face show it?” The message is that joy is visible. Well, who’s the guy who just so happens to be smiling all the time? Oh, it’s Dave. So the subtext is that Dave is more joyful than others, and since joy is a fruit of the Spirit, more full of the Holy Spirit. The reality is many Spirit-filled believers don’t have a personality like Dave (if that even is his personality and not a mask). But when Dave tells that story, it subtly trashes the spiritual legitimacy of most of the people in the room and exalts Dave to the top. As people in the group grow in their spiritual walk but never seem to become like Dave in his “joy,” there can be a perception that Dave is always somehow on another level.
Jesus U
Dave had an idea back in 2019ish to start a ministry platform for discipleship training called Jesus U. He had ambitious goals of hitting significant milestones in the development of the platform within the space of a year. At one meeting, he told a few of us that God had given him a global vision for Jesus U. He remarked on how mind-blowing it was that God would work something so large through someone as small-time as he was (my paraphrase). To my knowledge, Jesus U hasn’t facilitated a single minute of instruction as of mid-2025.²
² We see this kind of grandiosity in some other leaders: In Season 1, Episode 7 (28:00 in) of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, Cosper points out that Bill Hybels called Willow Creek the hope of the world, and Mark Driscoll said people would write books about Mars Hill (well, they did make a podcast…). Hybels resigned after allegations of sexual misconduct. In 2014, Driscoll resigned after public criticism and formal complaints of alleged abusive behavior. One might wonder if Dave’s global vision for little old me? line is the covert narcissism on (quiet) display next to Hybels’ and Driscoll’s grandiose narcissism.
The Vision of Fruit
More than once, Dave told a story to a few of us of a vision God had given him of the massive fruit of his ministry. The idea was that God was showing him how his work for the kingdom had multiplied over time (or would multiply?) and produced an amazing harvest.
The Mysterious Car Crash
During COVID, Citizens Church at 7th and Thunderbird allowed Friday Night to use its building for our meetings. According to Dave, one night he was driving back late at night (probably around midnight) after Friday Night. He’s traveling east on Thunderbird approaching Cave Creek Road. He begins to feel that he’s either being followed, or else having his speed / position controlled by one or two other vehicles on the road. Maybe there was a vehicle in front of him and one on the side, and he felt he was forced to slow down. I don’t remember exactly. But he comes up to Cave Creek and a car traveling at a high-rate of speed is about to hit him when suddenly another car smashes into the car that was going to hit Dave. It’s a massive crash. Dave gets a spiritual sense that it’s not safe to stop, but that he should keep going. He drives home and later contacts Grace, because he knew she would’ve gone home slightly after him and driven the same way. He asks if she drove past a large wreck, and she says no. Dave interprets the incident as being a spiritual one – while in every sense it felt physically real and he could hear all the sounds as if it was a real wreck, he thinks it was a spiritual battle playing out in the visible realm, or perhaps that it was in the spiritual realm but Dave could see it. Something like that, don’t quote me on it. Knowing now that Dave lies a lot, I suspect he simply made up this entire story. But perhaps he had some kind of experience. We know about delusions of grandeur, maybe it was an illusion of grandeur? Regardless, the message the story sends is that Dave was given a profound awareness of the spiritual world, if only for a brief moment. And when he glimpsed through the veil, he himself was the focus – the one spiritual beings were fighting over.
Another Spiritual Battle
Dave and Kathy tell a story about how a bunch of bad stuff was happening in their lives, and they felt like some kind of bad spirit was telling them that it will all go away if they just stop doing ministry. They refuse to give in and eventually it stops. I could have the specifics wrong, but that was the gist. Again, the message it sends is that the spiritual forces of darkness view Dave and Kathy as formidable enemies, worthy of expending significant time and resources. When you already trust Dave and Kathy as spiritual leaders and hear a story like this, it only reinforces that trust. When you see all the bad fruit, it really makes you wonder where that story came from.
Papa Dave
Dave accepted a special title for himself (“Papa”). Think about it for yourself. If you were mentoring someone and they wanted to call you “Papa” or “Mama,” would you accept it?
Apollos Wrote Hebrews(?)
Dave has claimed on multiple occasions that God told him that Apollos wrote the book of Hebrews. The authorship of Hebrews has been speculated about going all the way back to Clement of Alexandria (150-215 AD). But God just told Dave the answer? Yeah, okay.
Commentary from Jessica: It does not edify the church for God to give this word to Dave. New textual evidence would need to be discovered in order for this to be helpful to the wider church community. It would cause unsolvable infighting if each biblical scholar based their assessment of a passage on what they thought God said to them. There would be no standard method to resolve conflicting "words from God". Thus statements like this appear to be a way for Dave to demonstrate his special relationship with God.
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The following excerpt is from New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton.
Copyright © 1961 by the Abbey of Gethsemani, Inc.
The relevant section starts at the bottom of page 48.
