The Kidney Donor’s Story

by Rebecca L.

Note: The names Rachelle, Kirk, and Marvin are pseudonyms for actual names.

History

 I met Dave and Kathy in 2006 after moving to Arizona. They were people of faith who tried to answer my questions about Christianity, but couldn’t satisfy the ones that kept me from returning to it. After meeting my husband in 2007, who finally answered those questions, I accepted Christ, and we began seeking Dave and Kathy as a couple for counsel.

They supported us through many struggles, but I didn't realize the subtle conditioning they began introducing. I remember attending one Friday night where a woman asked for prayer about going on a mission trip. The group surrounded her, prayed, and gave yes/no answers as if receiving direct guidance from God. I felt uncomfortable, as Jim and I had studied Decision Making and the Will of God by Greg Koukl, which taught that this wasn’t a biblical method. As we grew closer to the group, Dave affirmed this as a biblical way of hearing from the Lord. Grateful and eager for more of God's presence, we embraced this approach.

Kidney Donation 

Though Dave and Kathy continued to help with relational issues, we attended Friday night sporadically due to work and living 45 minutes away. In 2017, I felt led to donate a kidney to Kathy, who was in kidney failure. After tests showed I was likely a match, things looked hopeful.

In April 2018, Mayo Clinic doctors found a liver spot and warned that donating a kidney could complicate future pregnancies. I struggled with the decision, but with my husband’s encouragement, I decided to continue with the process. Kathy did know that I had been going through the process to see if I would qualify. At some point, we learned Kathy had turned down a cadaver kidney based on a "listening prayer" session of three people that claimed they heard from God it had to be ranked under 40. (*all kidneys have a ranking system- the lower the number the more healthy the kidney.) When one came ranked at 38, prophets they knew and their family prayed if she should take it and heard "no". After learning I was a match two weeks later, they reinterpreted the number to mean my age when I agreed to donate.  Ultimately, I did feel that giving Kathy my kidney was the right choice and that I did have an extra measure of faith to do so. At the time I thought nothing of the cadaver kidney story. However, my current reflection on the cadaver kidney situation, and what I have since learned about how Dave teaches and handles prophecy, leaves me questioning how it was handled.

Jim’s Health

 In May 2020, Jim developed Parsonage Turner Syndrome and faced potential paralysis. He found a therapist who electrocuted him with DC current for 12 weeks in a row to get his nerves talking to each other. Miraculously it worked. He also had continuing shoulder problems and 10 bulging spinal discs that left him unable to work and in constant pain. I took extra jobs, but we still couldn’t cover our bills. Despite qualifying for disability, Jim was ineligible due to not paying into FICA for five years.

In July 2022, I accepted a low-paying full-time job that provided fast-activating health benefits.  A friend reported to us his experience of full restoration with the success of stem cells, but they were not covered under any insurance, and Jim was wary of spine surgery, especially after the previous threat of paralysis. We knew we didn’t have a choice but to sell our house to get Jim treated and pay our bills. Selling our house felt like a no-win situation, as Jim would likely lose his business and be left vulnerable at his age of nearly 60.

Attending Friday Night/Dave’s conduct

We attended Friday nights intermittently, especially during and after the pandemic. Jim often listened online due to pain. I regularly asked Dave, Kathy, and the community for prayer regarding our financial and health crises, as we were continually going into more and more debt, and facing foreclosure despite loans we borrowed from other family members (which hugely detrimented our familial relationships.) From 2021- 2023 I had texted Dave and Kathy for emotional support many times, expressing fearfulness of our financial situation and the emotional impact. After multiple incidents of us both meeting with them, and Jim with Dave, Jim always came away discouraged. As I look back, I noticed that Dave and Kathy did tend to side with me, and there wasn’t much compassion/encouragement from Dave towards Jim, despite his crippling circumstances of health, losing a parent, strain on our relationship, and suicidal thoughts, as I told him that Jim had been struggling with about 6 months before we sold our home. At the time I remember being grateful I had support, and thought this was supposed to be a husband’s responsibility to try harder since I was trying my best to hold up the other end.

Dave's False Prophecy and Manipulation 

In late spring 2023, we decided to prepare our house for the market. Before listing, I asked Dave and Kathy for prayer. Kathy mentioned they were also struggling financially, and I remember thinking I wanted to bless them after the sale.

God provided good friends, Jeremiah and Rachelle, who lent us money and helped us repair the house. We specifically sought Dave’s wisdom, and he believed that we should sell the house including the studio. In July, we ran out of funds and faced foreclosure. Jim asked Dave for a loan. Dave reluctantly gave $3,000, then texted a week later claiming God said Jim was cursed for not tithing, referencing Malachi 3 and Genesis 4. (His story details this account).

This shocked us, especially since we had tithed in cash twice in previous years from his mother’s  inheritance and insurance money—despite being broke. Dave’s message contradicted 2 Corinthians 9, which warns against giving under compulsion, however, this didn’t occur to me at the time. We were desperate and I accepted its truth based on trust in Dave’s prophetic nature we had come to believe in. 

On August 31st, we asked Dave for more financial help with our electric bill, but he referred us to a financial adviser, which confused us, because the adviser couldn't assist financially. Rachelle then confronted Dave about refusing to help even after I had donated my kidney. She asked him if he would lend us money if there wasn’t any in the church fund because we were in a strained situation. He reacted suspiciously, saying he didn’t think we knew how to handle money. She told him that this wasn’t the time to be making that type of case because of the desperate position we were in. He then replied attempting to make the case that this was our fault. She was shocked and pushed back against his statement, but he still refused.

 In the midst of our sorrow, Jim wrote a beautiful worship song to glorify the Lord despite the suffering we were going through. I encouraged him to play it for our Friday night church because it was so beautiful. We asked Dave if we could perform it and if that would somehow allow God to release funds to us.  After pressing him on the phone, he said yes, that he thought maybe the funds would be released if Jim performed that worship song. In late September of 2023, we performed the song for all of Friday night. After we performed it, Dave later confirmed that the song was the release, and lent us the other chunk of money to pay our electric bill.

In October of 2023, after 97 days with no good offers, we added a bedroom and no longer planned to sell with a studio, ignoring Dave's advice. But by then, the market had died for the winter and we had to take it off the market. After taking on a roommate in November to help pay the bills and gaining a new realtor in March 2024, we ran into a final situation where we would foreclose on our house if we didn’t borrow more money. Dave resisted, but with our realtor’s encouragement, he loaned us what we needed. We finally sold the house within six weeks. Under fear of a curse, Jim and I gave Dave and Kathy $30,000 in addition to repaying the loans. Jim also mentioned to Dave that he had an idea to give $10,000 of the tithe to Marvin, a close disciple of Dave’s, since he was starting as a new associate pastor at a church.  Dave refused, stating that Marvin didn’t need the money because he worked a full time job (despite the fact that he and his wife live in an apartment while Dave owns 2 houses). Jim replied, ‘Ok, it’s your tithe,’ because again, we believed it was supposed to go to him because the Lord told Dave we were cursed.  He told us to write the check to "Church of Phoenix." We trusted it would be used faithfully.

Dave’s Unrepentant Behavior 

While awaiting stem cell treatment, Jim continued struggling with Dave’s behavior. Dave often used a passive-aggressive tone. Once, when Jim asked to discuss a topic, Dave replied sarcastically. Another time, Dave harshly scolded Jim for teaching flamenco on Dave’s guitar to another believer, saying it should only be used for worship, both situations creating embarrassment.

On my birthday- the same night Jim gave Dave our official tithe check, Jim came with me despite his excessive pain, and someone else taught on logical fallacies for apologetics—a topic we had requested to lead the year before because of Jim’s extensive studies on it. Dave never followed up with us but had promoted another person. Even more hurtful, he didn’t even assign Jim to lead a small group that night, and later claimed he hadn’t seen him, though Jim sat beside me while Dave sang me Happy Birthday.

Jim confronted Dave twice about these directly hostile and passive aggressive quips and received hollow apologies and explanations to excuse his behavior. At a later event in front of multiple witnesses, Dave mocked him with, "Oh great, another Jim question." That was the breaking point. Jim was very angry and didn’t know how to address the issue any further, so I offered to advocate.

Approaching Another Leader

 On March 30th, 2025, I planned to attend another event but suddenly felt anxious.  The wife of Kirk, another leader in the group, had been texting me at that moment and I asked her to pray for me. I then felt a need to go to Saturday night house church instead. I told Jim I had a sense I needed to go ahead of time, but I didn’t understand why. After our meeting, I felt prompted to speak with Kirk, who had shown evidence of character and humility in past conversations.

We began talking late at night after the others had left, and within five minutes, Jim called. He felt strongly that the Spirit was prompting him that I was speaking with Kirk, and had texted me at the exact moment I began to speak with him-- confirming the importance of the conversation. When I shared this with Kirk and explained Jim’s on the spot interpretation of needing him to help advocate for our situation, Kirk looked stunned.

I explained to Kirk that Jim had already confronted Dave twice about his inappropriate behavior, but Dave had minimized his own actions, offered only hollow apologies, and now repeated the behavior again. I told Kirk that Jim couldn’t confront Dave a third time without sinning due to his hurt and anger,  that I needed emotional support in the situation, and asked if he could help me address Dave. Kirk reassured me that I was a good wife, and promised to reach out to Jim.

Two weeks later on April 11th, we found out about the spiritual manipulation of another couple denoting patterns of abuse. When we brought up the pending conversation with Kirk, they told us that Kirk had been confronted with potential wrongdoing by Dave and had deflected the conversation elsewhere. 

When Kirk later contacted Jim, he proposed discussing the matter at Saturday night house church, a group setting, inappropriate for the sensitive and serious nature of the topic. After learning about Kirk’s deflection and recalling the way he had responded to concerns about Dave’s lack of humility in the past, we declined, realizing the conversation would not be fruitful. 

The Socratic Method

 I believe God has been preparing me through discernment to expose corruption in the church. Over the past few years, I have researched extensively and used the Socratic Method to encourage deeper questions in our online church group chat. One of those questions was: "What defines a Christian cult?" I never expected that this line of questioning would lead me to uncover serious violations of Scripture by the very people I once trusted most.

Gratefulness 

I want to end with gratitude. I am grateful for the extreme generosity the Lord has given to us in this time of trial. Thank you to Rachelle and Jeremiah in helping us repair our home, and for confronting evil when seen. To Angie and Daryl for allowing the Lord to work through you and repeatedly give us an affordable place to stay through this tumultuous season. I want to praise the Lord for all of these things, including the location being 8 minutes away from a stem- cell clinic that seems to be the only one in the country that could’ve genuinely helped Jim with his intense health needs. Thank you to our family that lent us money despite the discomfort it has caused you.  And thank you to all of those from Friday and Saturday night who have supported and prayed for us through this extremely painful situation. We once more want you to know we wrote this disclosure because we love the church and all the people in it, and want her to be free from the potential damage that could be caused, providing an opportunity to grow in discernment. We continue to pray for Dave and Kathy’s repentance and restoration to the church.